blades_of_grass | (no subject)

>> the underlying idea is to use the characters - in most suitable way - to fit certain narrative

Yes, that seems to be the general idea. And I like this direction of analysis much better than the "fandom is for comfort" one - not because the other is not true, but because it depends on the immediate circumstances around the text rather than on the text itself.

I mean, by analysing the text we can (probably, I'm no specialist) establish that it so closely matches a certain type of narrative that it could not be unintentional. And there lies the proof of its fanficness (fanficity?)

But what will remain from the "fandom=comfort zone" idea, if we analyze the text, say, 10 years hence, when fandom no longer exists or no one recognizes the hurt-comfort trope, or there is no adult alive who has not watched HP saga - in other words, when we are left alone with the text? If people will continue reading it, would it follow that it is literature, not fanfic?

I agree that the fandom as a whole has too many disparate entities - and I know next to nothing about bandoms and others. So yes, I'm talking about a tiny part of the whole.

but i see the 'comfort' part of fanfiction in it's predictability, not it's relationship with canon. suffering protagonist in hurt/comfort fiс would get comforted or healed, two lovers would get reunited, kinky relationship would work out for the best. even darkfics give what promised - you see the 'character death' warning, you know what you're going to get and what sort of emotional kick you're reading it for (and hence the importance of warnings and tags, the feeling of betrayal when you're not warned for something - i would accept tragic death in the book, but unwarned one in fic would get me enraged at the author, even if it would serve it's purpose in the story). it's less about relationship with source, or how much it strays from it or twists the original narrative, and more about underlying assumption that author would fulfill the promise of certain narrative.

Yes, well, the relationship with canon a part of comfort is NOT :) But for me the comfort comes from more than predictability - it is also a non-judgmental atmosphere in which kinks are not a thing to be ashamed of and concealed. There are people who proclaim that they are reading fics for their novel psychological insights, quick wit, postmodernist play of ideas, literary excellence and other exalted qualities, and I do not doubt that at some point all that may be found there - depends on what level the reader was before the fic. But - honestly and maturely - I have some psychological needs that have to be met until they disappear (and I work on that), so fics are a needful thing and it is nice not to be ashamed of it.

I remember the time when I went through exceedingly messy separation, divorce and remarriage - I was not able to read anything more profound than Harlequin novels, even longer works of Nora Roberts were beyond me :) - and I had to conceal the sordid state of affairs or listen unpleasant remarks about my taste. Well, it is nice not to be ashamed anymore. Though now I have grown so independent that I can admit liking SF/F, anime, Nora Roberts, harlequins and fanfics :) Kudos to fandom, I say.

oh, that definitely! but this is where fic ties into social context rather than textual one. and, well - there're quick wit, play of ideas, literary excellence and so on to find in fics, if you know where to look and how to play, but at the ground it's kink-fulfilling, open playground for everybody, and hooray for that :)

Your post is amazing! Is it OK to make a link to it in a separate post?

Yes, of course fandom is a social tool - I do not contend that it is not - or if I do, it is more to separate the false assumptions from sound arguments.

But so are Midrashim - a way to deal with an unthinkable notion that the G-d we believe in allowed _that_ to happen. It is a way of self-assertion, of recognising the problem, of dealing with it in a way that diminishes the amount of pain in the world (rather than not recognising or insisting it is as it should be).

But the social context did not preclude Midrashim becoming an inspiration and a model for literature: for stories of I.L.Perets, M.M Seforim, G. Meyrink and M.Chabon. So I have a hope for fanfic still :) Of course, same as happens with SF/F, when it is good enough, universal enough, it is no longer SF/F (there is a nice article about the difference: http://zhurnal.lib.ru/c/chigirinskaja_o_a/chronotop.shtml).

yes, sure, though it's sort of a really old one.

some fics do become original novels with serial numbers filed off (though this rarely works well), and, what's interesting enough, many prominent ficwriters migrate to fantasy (mostly ya fantasy):

ladyjaida did (pretty fascinating) havemercy, cassandra claire writes her city of bones series,

mistful writes demon's lexicon,

astolat started writing o'brian au fic and ended up with temeraire series, and so on. and they bring good parts of fanfiction - freedom of playing, awareness of sexuality and different orientation, skills of working with cliches in new ways - with them and turn them into something new.

so on one level fanfiction culture is something of a storytelling tradition where social aspect is more important - i chatfic stories with friends for the pleasure of shared re-telling, not any writing goals - and on the other, for people who get talent for that, it goes a bit further and become a very flexible writing workshop, and some people bring fascinating social agenda in, and so on, and so on, anything for everybody.

(and this is why when outsider dismiss the whole culture as low quality, useless and harmful to original excercise i get peeved, but don't we all :D)